What We Don’t Know About Obamacare Could Kill Us
Ive been thinking quite a bit the last couple days about the nationalized health care program the President and his buddies in Congress want to see passed by August September the end of the year. That, of course, is old news.
Now, what they want us to believe about the plan is that it will provide everyone with the same excellent level of health care most of us have now, at a lower cost then we now pay, without increasing the deficit one red cent. Reinforcing that belief was the entire point of the President’s press conference this past week.
That all sounds great and the President is certainly intent on selling us on his plan, except that there is no plan yet. All he’s given us is a series of concepts without details.
The devil, as they say, are in the details and, right now, there are a lot of details yet to be decided. Here’s what we don’t yet know about Obamacare:
- How many people it will cover.
- Who it will cover.
- What will happen to those of us who are already covered.
- How much health care we will get.
- How much it will cost (total and per person).
- Who will pay for it.
- Who will decide what and how much health care we will get.
I have to wonder what the President is really trying to sell us. We’ve already bought at least two pokes we were told were full of pig but which turned out to be packed with sawdust and rot. Hopefully we learned our lesson.
Other Posts of Interest:
- The ObamaCare Cheat Sheet
- Presidential Dishonesty and Other People’s Money, Today at AIP
- If The DNC Will Lie For You, Will They Lie About You?
Category: Health Care Craziness
Fortunately, the details don't really matter for some of us. Under the current system, when I get cancer I will die. Under some other system there is a possibility that I might live. The current system is a death order, and you really can't get worse than that. And the Republicans are quite clear on this: they want me to die. Now obviously, I'll just move to Thailand to avoid my death sentence. But that's really what the current system is about: if you get sick, you need to leave the United States and go to a country that has affordable health care.
Interestingly, the current system saves more people from dying from cancer than in the countries whose systems the Democrats seek to emulate. As for that mystery man, well, if you've read my other posts on health care, you will have seen that I believe the control should be in our hands. BUt a government bureaucrat is no better than an insurance company employee.
"Who will decide what and how much health care we will get."
This is the funny one. Do you know who decides it now? I bet you don't know his name, but he's God to you. He's some unknown guy in some generic cubicle in some massive insurance company. And he gets to decide whether you live or die, and you don't even know his name. And even your doctor is impotent against the awesome power this unnamed man wields over your life. And even the government can pass no laws to regulate this unnamed man. He's more powerful than God, the IRS, the FBI, and the CIA combined. Only he can decide when you die. Even God can't do that.
"Interestingly, the current system saves more people from dying from cancer than in the countries whose systems the Democrats seek to emulate."
Got some evidence? Given that we have the highest incidence rate for cancer in the world, I'm not sure how you'd reconcile that. Yes we save more people, but that's because we're the fourth largest country in the world and we create cancer at the highest rate in the world. No country has more cancer patients, so it's no surprise we save more patients. You are mixing pure numbers with rates. You have to look at this on per capita numbers, not absolute numbers. If you want to play the absolute numbers game, I can say that nobody in Monaco has ever died of cancer. Want to know why? They go to France for treatment and die there. You can't look at numbers, you have to look at statistics. And the statistics say really bad things for our system. Hey! We're number Fifty! Are we really number fifty? Well, there are many measures and we can weight them differently. So we're somewhere between 45 and 95. Let's accept 50 and just call it a day. We'll only go down with more investigation.
But really Jimmie, if our system is so great, why are we struggling to get in the top fifty countries for heath care. If we are number one, why aren't we even remotely in consideration for number one? And if our system is so great, Why am I eliminated from it. Surely a great system like ours could allow someone to pay money and get insurance. But they can't, and I'm living proof.
But it comes down to this Jimmie. Why do you want me to die? That's it. Why do you want me to die? And I'll say it again. The Insurance industry wants me to die. The Republican party wants me to die. And Jimmie wants me to die. So why, Jimmie, do you want me to die? Why? Give me a reason why I should die. This is obviously an important Republican issue. And my death will further that issue. So why should I die?
Or let's just put it another way. I paid for insurance most of my life. Not once did an insurance company ever pay for my treatments. They always had some excuse about why I should have to pay for all of it. And I did it. But they denied me any new coverage because I was too much of a risk. But did they refund they premiums I paid them? Surely not. And look, if your looking to get insurance, don't. The insurance companies are nothing but legalized scam operations. They take your money and don't pay for anything. I've always had to pay for my own medical procedures even when the insurance company claimed to pay them. They only claimed to do so, they never actually did it. I had to pay. So understand that you are on your own. And if you are stupid enough to pay money to an insurance company, you are still on your own. They have no legal obligation to provide any health care to you. The only legal obligation is that you pay them. So don't do it. Get yourself arrested. The jail actually has a legal obligation to provide medical services. They are the only organization that has such an obligation under any laws. So if you're sick, get busted. Hold up a liquor store with a squirt gun. It's your only chance at actually getting medical treatment.
Commit crimes so you can get busted and get medical care? That's really strange. But that's America. But if I need to do that, I will. I won't kill anyone, but I damn will blow some guys balls off just to get into jail where I can get medical treatment. I sure as hell can't get that treatment outside of jail. And I can assure you Jimmie, your balls are the ones I want to shoot if I can't can't medical care. But let's be honest, I'll shoot your balls off and get on the next plane to Bangkok. For me there's only two ways to get the treatment I will need. Jail or Thailand. It's the only way I can live. And I want to live Jimmie, and I'll do what it takes. If I have to rip your liver out of your body, I'll do it. If I live and you die, that's okay with me. But is that okay with you? I'm guessing not. So maybe you might be open to other options?
You know, committing a felony to get medical care is pretty much the best I've got. I certainly can't get coverage in the private industry. This is the wonderful system you promote. And it's your balls that will get blown off in that felony incident. If I have to go to jail to get health care, why not do it a good fashion? But why are you so worried about a system that might allow me to get healthcare without committing a felony?
Look at it Jimmie. It's simple. I can't get medical care under normal circumstances. Nobody will give me insurance because of the obvious cancer risk. And the obvious neurolgical risk. For me it doesn't even start from zero. It starts from killing people who won't even let me get to zero. And from then, I get to talk to insurance agent who will deny me. This is your plan. And it's really simple. I die. That's your plan, I die. I die, I die. And once again, I die. If you can tell me a plan where I don't die, then do it. Have a plan like that? Didn't think so, so I die.
And really Jimmie, I'm sure you want me to move to Thailand where there really is some real health care. Too bad America can't have that. But I really want to ask you this and you have offered only two choices. Should I die or just move to Thailand? You get to choose, but understand that living in America is not an option for me in your world. I either die or move to Thailand. Which is it?
Well you know what? Maybe it would be an option if the last insurance companies would give back the money they scammed from me. I've paid into the private insurance system, and they didn't give a damn thing back. I was okay with that until they decided I could never get back into the system. They never will refund the money I obviously wasted. Nor will they ever insure me. So now I've put at least $170K into the system, and they won't insure me. And they surely won't refund that $170K. It's legally authorized theft. Theft is probably a little hard, but fraud is real. Felony fraud and we can make it a Federal case if you don't want to cooperate. And there's a really a reason why. I should be able to recoup my previous payments to an an insurance company if they refuse to continue the policy. If that policy meant nothing legally (the case they're arguing), then why does my money mean something? It obviously means nothing, so why don't you just transfer that into my account? It's nothing, right?
Having lived many years in Europe I am in the lucky situation still having my European insurance, which reimburses me and my family everything and gives me full free doctors and hospital choice. The so called “Democrat” system is nothing new and proved to work in many civilized countries, achieving significantly better results for the individual and not driving anyone into bankruptcy. Shame on those who are not willing to look to the facts but want to stay blind and stupid for the rest of their lives, just to preserve an image of a “republican” heaven which never existed.
And yet, Joe, England and Canada are looking to back out of their system because they are unsustainable and are killing people through rationing.
You are obviously a victim of the ultra right wing propaganda. Neither Canada nor England are going to introduce anything that would even come close to the US health care crime. If they apply changes it is to optimize the present system which already works far better than the US. Check the numbers on how many people are killed by the US system because they are refused health care and how many don't make it in real civilized countries in Europe, you will be surprised. If you look only to fetal mortality US is on the level of third world countries and does not come even close the low rates of European countries.
Yeah, that's why health experts in both countries are saying that the current nationalized system is unsustainable in the short or long term, because they like it so veyr much.
Health Experts? Republicans I guess. All facts confirm exactly the opposite.
Nope. Actual British and Canadian experts.
And all facts do not confirm the opposite. Go check out cancer survivability rates and number of CAT and MRI machines and operators. Also, look into the rationing schemes for elderly people under consideration in both Britain and Canada.
Facts: Life expectation rate is higher in Germany, France, Holland, Sweden, Belgium, Italy, Spain …. than in the US. What about fetal mortality, how do your experts explain the extremely bad figures in the US, come on get your homework done, don't hide behind pseudo experts and come up with something substantial. 47 Million Americans cannot efford health care, 0 % of the population in Germany, France, ….. cannot effort health care. The density MRI and CAT per inhabitan is not a bit higher than in the above mantioned countries. Stop dreaming, wake up or don't you care about your fellow citizens who are left to die in this country
The differences in life expectancy vary and nationalized medicine is not a common scheme. Refer here to see the variety. Same for infant mortality. See here for those numbers. Notice how infant mortality and life expectancy do not track together (frex, the US rates below Hungary, Chile, Portugal, Panama, and Slovakia in infant mortality but above them in life expectancy). However, when it comes to surviving diseases like cancer, the US ranks very highly.
Also, you are absolutely wrong to say that 47 million Americans can't afford health care. It is true that 47 million Americans do not have health care insurance, which is different. Some of them cannot get insurance because they are not here legally. Some are eligible for existing government insurance but have not signed up for it. Some can afford it but choose not to purchase it. The 47 million number is misleading and has been for a long time. The facts, again, have escaped you.
Actually, the density of MRI and CAT machines is different. Canada, for instance, performs half as many CAT scans per 1,000 people than the US. MRI scan rates are similarly low. The waiting period for an MRI scan is somewhere around 100 days (I believe) in Canada, but 3 days in the US.
Th original point of my post still remains and you've yet to actually address that. We do not know what will be in Obamacare yet we are being told we must accept it. To that I say balderdash.
Read your facts:
Life expectancy USA # 46, Canada # 8, United Kingdom # 36
Infant Mortality USA 6.4/1000, Canada 4.6/1000, United Kingdom 5/1000 (reading 6.4 dead infants based on a count of 1000.
Is this the health care of the #1 country in the world, shame on you misleading your readers ….
*sigh*
Look, you're getting tedious. Well, check that. You've been tedious. Now you're wasting my time.
I posted the links. They support what I claim — that infant mortality rates and life expectancy do not correspond the way you say they do. I have also shown that the US stacks up very well on stats where health care matters – cancer survivability.
You seem persistent in signing away your freedom on a gossamer promise of, well nothing since the health care legislation you want so badly hasn't even been written yet. I am not so willing.
Obviously you don’t want to understand the numbers. Statistical figures about life expectations are a summary of the health and well being of a country; that includes any type any cause of illness, even cancer. If US is so good curing cancer how comes that people die younger in the US than in those evil democratic countries. I never said there is a correlation between infant mortality and life expectancy, superhero. Infant mortality by itself is 28 % less in Canada and more than 30 % less in United Kingdom. This is an indication of the quality of our present health care system. Does that ring a bell, or you still can't read numbers….
But they aren't. There are all sorts of variables that come into play that one statistic simple can not track. For instance, the US ranks very high in curing cancer but not so well in deaths from diseases related to obesity. Is it a failing of the health care system that people in the US suffer from obesity-related diseases or is it an indicator that the US is a far more prosperous country that gives its people the freedom to act as they please? It seems to me that it is the latter and not the former.
And, like I said, the US has an infant mortality below many other countries yet a life expectancy above them. What does that say for your analysis? You cherry-pick the UK and Canada where the numbers correlate but ignore several other countries where the numbers do not.
The other question that puts your analysis in doubt is the number of people who leave Canada and the UK to seek treatment here because of long wait times and rationing. The reverse happens rarely. Of course, the UK and Canada do not have truly socialist health care systems as those with more money can always buy extra care while the poor can't. On the other hand, the poor get all sorts of care here whether they can pay or not.
And that, I'm afraid, is my last on the matter here. I have other things I need to be doing and you haven't paid me to sit around and be your debating partner.
"fostert says:
July 25, 2009 at 21:15
Now obviously, I’ll just move to Thailand…"
How soon can you leave?
Who places lies in the internet must accept that others tell the truth. The living standard in the US may be higher in your limited area than in the european countries but is definitely not country wide. Keep your eyes shut and pretend you are living in the paradise, it won't help. You and your kind are responsible for the death and misery of our people, poor education levels (20% US citizens can't read nor write), for the high rate of crime, for people bleeding to death in emergency rooms,….. This is my last comment to you superhero.
Yep, Joe, blame me for everything. However, ask yourself why, if your utopian idea is such a great deal, it's only resulted in more death and more misery everywhere it's been tried.
There is a reason US Infant mortality rates are higher-I have researched this because I was very curious about life expectancy in the US and other countries with the kind of healthcare that is being proposed. Many other countries do not include premature and still births as part of their numbers while the US does. Also, the life expectancy is lower in US because we include violent crimes and suicide in our numbers to the UN.