President Obama, from yesterday’s press conference:
The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future.
White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs, July 17th:
I think the President has been clear that this is a vigorous debate in Iran between Iranians about their leadership.
This is what is really happening today in Iran.
I was going towards Baharestan with my friends…. This was everyone, not just supporters of one candidate or another, everyone — all of my friends, we were going to Baharestan to express our opposition to these killings these days, and demanding freedom. But the black-clad police stopped everyone at Saadi. They emptied the buses that were taking people there and let the private cars go on…. We went on until Ferdowsi then, all of a sudden, some 500 people with clubs and woods, they came out of [undecipherable] mosque and they poured into the streets and they started beating everyone.
And they tried to beat everyone on Saadi bridge and throwing them off of the bridge…. And everyone also on the sidewalks. They beat a woman so savagely that she was drenched in blood and her husband, who was watching the scene, he just fainted. And I also saw people shooting, I mean the security forces shooting on people, on Lalezar. And of course people were afraid….
They were beating people like hell. It was a massacre. They were trying to beat people so they would die. They were cursing — saying very bad words to everyone. They were beating old men. And this was exactly a massacre. You should stop this. You should stop this. You should help the people of Iran who demand freedom. You should help us.
That is not debate; it is a slaughter. That is not the Iranians having a voice in their country’s election; it is Iranians having their voices silenced by hired thugs. The President may think he’s playing a great game of political strategy but he’s not. He’s watching passively while brave, ordinary folks are butchered in the streets.
Yesterday, Barack Obama said, pusillanimously, “The Iranian people can speak for themselves.” Well, they have been and what they are saying is “Help us.”
UPDATE: Linked by Ed Driscoll and The Anchoress, both of whom have other links worth your attention. What happened in Iran today should not be accepted by any civilized human being.
[...] Update: Over at the Sundries Shack, Jimmie writes, “It’s Not a ‘Debate’, Mr. President. It’s a Slaughter and You’re Helping It Happen…. [...]
[...] Sundries Shack: it’s not a debate, Mr. President, it’s a slaughter [...]
Great post! Best Iran post I’ve seen this evening.
Need to put you on the top of the blog list…
What would you like to see Obama do, Jimmie? I would like to see criticism of violence but I don’t see what else he can do. Of course, I think he’s just putting up an act and then later will invade Iran to “do the will of the people” there and here. That or he wants the dictators in power because they are easier to bribe then elected officials.
The one thing I really hope we don’t do is “help” the Iranians like we “helped” Iraq. How many “Nedas” died in “shock and awe” when we blew up apartment buildings. I’d say, if the protests are legit and not being stirred up by the CIA, then let them figure work it out and give vocal support to Democracy and criticize violence.
Your comments are spot-on Jimmie. The trouble is our Fearless Leader DOESN’T CARE.
Quoted from and linked to at:
http://www.thecampofthesaints......5956269754
First thing, Matt, I don’t want an invasion of Iran. I don’t think it’s warranted at this point. There are plenty of things we can do. For one, the President can actually condemn the government, without his usual caveats and apologies. Second, he can push for us and other nations to stop selling oil to Iran. Even if a few nations agree, it’ll be felt.
Second, the protests are legit. I dig that conspiracy theories involving shadowy “neo-con” cabals are all the rage on the left, but they’re full of bunk.
I’m not on the left at all btw. I agree with Republicans more than Democrats (if I was forced to choose between the two.) However, I prefer the Libertarian Party or Ron Paul.
I assume when you say stop selling oil to them, you mean stop buying? That would hurt both nations but us mainly. China would just start buying their oil and we would have a significant jump in oil prices.
It seems to me Obama has finally criticized the government of Iran. However, I think he either wants to keep the Mullahs in power as an excuse to invade or because they are easier to corrupt than having a government accountable to the people.
If the people of Iran are independently rising up and are able to create a democracy in Iran, it will be one of the few true democracies in the world and at least for a short time, they will be an example for the same kind of passion we should have here.
The United States has actively engaged in destabilization of rival nations since after World War II. There is no reason to doubt it is continuing in Iran. I hope Iran can overthrow their dictator, however I care about the people there and don’t want them to become another “colony” of the United States.
Don’t doubt it. Obama wants a global empire-like government under his (at least what appears to be his) control. The only reason he is not as aggressive as Bush is because Bush was set up to be seen as the opposite of Obama. Now when Obama tortures, wiretaps, spies, and invades (directly or through the UN) no one will believe. People are stupid enough to say, “Oh no. We don’t do that anymore! Obama is here!”
This is also how terrorism works. They get the Patriot Act and other dictatorial powers established through foreign terrorist attacks and now all of the sudden Christians and those who are anti-government or third party are the terrorists!
Terrorism and global warming are both issues that have been created or incredibly blown out of proportion as ways to gain authoritarian power over the world as they are always referred to as “global problems” we all need to unite against.
Left and right are just created to keep us busy. Sorry to give you so much information and go off-topic but that’s what you get for calling me left wing
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I do apologize then. The conspiracy stuff is pure leftist (or right-wing fringe, but mostly leftist) crazy and I admit that I’m tired of it already. That “colony” comment of yours, for instance, is a perfect example. We haven’t done “colonies” for at least a century. We don’t do empire here in America, no matter what the isolationists, Paulites, and anti-war left say about it.
No, I really meant stop selling to them. Iran imports a lot of oil/gasoline. Depriving them of that would hurt the Mullahs a great deal.
Iran imports gasoline, but no oil. That is to say, there is not enough refinery capacity in the country to meet its own needs. So you probably want to say gasoline specifically. Although, a gasoline embargo would probably only cause temporary pain, until more refineries could be built.
I couldn’t remember, at that hour, whether we also sold them oil as well. Thank you for tightening that up for me. It’s what I get for attending to the blog at odd hours, right?
I agree the pain would be temporary, but refineries aren’t built quickly and the Iranian government isn’t exactly wealthy. Even if it put appreciable pressure on the Mullahs for a year, that could be enough.
I’d guess 3-5 years is the time frame we’re talking about to bring refineries on line; more money could shorten that up a bit, but probably not to less than 2 years.
Before we even get into any arguments of policy, what’s this “selling oil to Iran” stuff? Iran buys no oil. They sell it. They buy refined petroleum products like gasoline and heating oil. And they do that because Russia and China haven’t finished the refineries yet. Iran has the third largest oil reserves and the first largest natural gas reserves. They don’t have particularly good infrastructure, but many countries are willing to pitch in on that. So what what the hell are you even talking about?
As for the “revolution” well it’s not a revolution, it’s a call for evolution. And it’s a good one and might succeed. We’ll see. Jimmie and I are both old enough to remember the last revolution in Iran. But I’m guessing he didn’t have the refugees sleeping in the living room like I did. Seriously, that was the norm for a while when the Shah went down. Refugees in the living room. The neighbors across the street were Iranian, and they asked us to help out. So we did. But this has eerie similarities. It will take a year, but I think they will succeed. Yes, people will get killed. I really don’t like that kind of thing, but it does happen in evolutions. But understand that the structure will remain, but the power will shift. Rafsanjani will change it. And he has more power than anyone. Even the clerics need an economy, and Rafsanjani runs it. Give him some time to work it out. If he can’t, the people will deal with it. Give them some time to do it.
“So what what the hell are you even talking about?”
Let’s make this a little clearer. Turkey buys oil from Iran, refines it, and then sells it to everyone. But they have to sell back whatever Iran wants in refined products. Turkey will continue to do so because they make money off it. Imagine to outroar from conservatives if we suggested that an oil company stop doing business with a nasty country. Like say, Burma. I’ve suggested that to conservatives, and Jimmie too. Shot down, of course. Of course, I never thought that any oil embargo would possibly work. And Jimmie pointed that at too. In this case, you need Turkey to go along, and they won’t do it unless we bail out their water projects, which are running over budget. Even then, we’ll still have to give them a few more AWACS and a bunch of stealth fighters. If not, they can shut down our command and control systems for the entire Middle East. Want to try that? I’m guessing not.
And look, our decision to not invest in Iran’s resources only means one thing: other people get the prize. Russia and China already have big investments there. And India is trying to get in. Good for them, they were smart. Imagine if we owned some of those resources. Oops, can’t do that. It’s illegal for us. We have embargoes that other countries will ignore. So tell me why being unable to own Iran’s resources is good for us. Russia can own them, and so can China. But our oil companies can’t. Sorry. It’s the biggest remaining reserves of oil and gas in the world, and you conservatives want to prevent our oil companies from getting to it. What the hell are you thinking?
fostert – You really do need to get your own blog.
You know what, Matt? I’m originally from the Middle East and I have heard the same sh*t as what you said from so many others that I simply can’t pass this entry without saying: We are sick and tired of being treated as if we are too stupid to want freedom like you have. Wanting to make control of your own destiny doesn’t come with European DNA, so stop acting as if we all (and Americans) love Obama so much we could never believe he did something bad.
As for Obama “finally” saying something negative–the damage has been done. The message has been passed to the regime that he is willing to allow barbarism for the opportunity to kiss their arses–only he was forced to do otherwise.
Iranians ASKED for help–in more ways than one.
IRANIANS asked for help.
Jimmie, I guess you would rather prefer our soldiers to go there and hit the population with our weapons. Were have you been when the mass murderers in the Balkan were active, what did you do to protect Nigerian people, I guess because Obama was not president then it wasn’t worth mentioning it. To bad ….otherwise you could have blamed him for that too ….
Again, doing a small amount of research on my blog (putting the word “genocide” in the little green search box, for instance) would have given you the answer.
And again, you’d be wrong. Do you have nothing better to do than troll?