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> <channel><title>Comments on: Gay Marriage Questions</title> <atom:link href="http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/</link> <description>Delivering the Best of the New Media Since 2004.</description> <lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 06:20:26 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator> <item><title>By: Petr Jandacek</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-696009</link> <dc:creator>Petr Jandacek</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 19:49:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-696009</guid> <description>In the Czech language there is no &quot;Gender Neutral&quot; word for &quot;To Marry&quot; or &quot;To Wed&quot;. A &quot;convulsive term&quot; such as &quot;Matrimonying&quot;, I suppose, could be created as a neologism.  When a man gets married he does a &quot;Z`ENIT se&quot;  Which translates as &quot;WOMANNING&quot;.  When a woman weds she does a &quot;VDAVAT se&quot;&quot;To Give of Self&quot;.  The traditional Czech lexicon will not know what to call a same sex marriage.  Christian missionaries in Hawaii and other Pacific islands had a difficulty conveying the idea of a &quot;Virgin Birth&quot; to peoples who had no concept of virginity or a word for the condition.
Submitted by a curious Czech in Los Alamos NM USA   HELP! </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Czech language there is no &quot;Gender Neutral&quot; word for &quot;To Marry&quot; or &quot;To Wed&quot;. A &quot;convulsive term&quot; such as &quot;Matrimonying&quot;, I suppose, could be created as a neologism.  When a man gets married he does a &quot;Z`ENIT se&quot;  Which translates as &quot;WOMANNING&quot;.  When a woman weds she does a &quot;VDAVAT se&quot;&quot;To Give of Self&quot;.  The traditional Czech lexicon will not know what to call a same sex marriage.  Christian missionaries in Hawaii and other Pacific islands had a difficulty conveying the idea of a &quot;Virgin Birth&quot; to peoples who had no concept of virginity or a word for the condition.</p><p>Submitted by a curious Czech in Los Alamos NM USA   HELP!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: fostert</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673304</link> <dc:creator>fostert</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:56:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673304</guid> <description>Okay, so check this out.  I was talking to woman lawyer about this.  She owned her house and had a live-in boyfriend that she didn&#039;t want to marry.  She rented a studio apartment to deal with it.  She forced her boyfriend to live there two days out of every month.  That prevented her from going the legally required 30 day stretch to qualify for common law marriage.  That way, he couldn&#039;t file for divorce and get her house.  Smart woman.  But the law shouldn&#039;t force her into that position. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so check this out.  I was talking to woman lawyer about this.  She owned her house and had a live-in boyfriend that she didn&#039;t want to marry.  She rented a studio apartment to deal with it.  She forced her boyfriend to live there two days out of every month.  That prevented her from going the legally required 30 day stretch to qualify for common law marriage.  That way, he couldn&#039;t file for divorce and get her house.  Smart woman.  But the law shouldn&#039;t force her into that position.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: fostert</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673303</link> <dc:creator>fostert</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:39:30 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673303</guid> <description>I should add that I have a particular problem with Common Law marriage.  I don&#039;t want to get married, but I have &quot;lived in sin.&quot;  Under Colorado law, if I live with a women for a month, I&#039;m married to her.  Regardless of whether I want to be married, I am married.  And it turns out that I have already been legally married.  Didn&#039;t even know it, but I was, twice.  And one of the women I&#039;ve lived with has been legally married to three men at the same time (she got married when she lived with me and another man).  For that reason, I don&#039;t rent to women anymore.  Technically, if I have a lease contract, that invalidates the common law marriage, but it will cost me a lot of court fees to prove that.  And she can put a lean on my house by divorcing me.  That&#039;s a nasty legal mess.  So I stay away. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that I have a particular problem with Common Law marriage.  I don&#039;t want to get married, but I have &quot;lived in sin.&quot;  Under Colorado law, if I live with a women for a month, I&#039;m married to her.  Regardless of whether I want to be married, I am married.  And it turns out that I have already been legally married.  Didn&#039;t even know it, but I was, twice.  And one of the women I&#039;ve lived with has been legally married to three men at the same time (she got married when she lived with me and another man).  For that reason, I don&#039;t rent to women anymore.  Technically, if I have a lease contract, that invalidates the common law marriage, but it will cost me a lot of court fees to prove that.  And she can put a lean on my house by divorcing me.  That&#039;s a nasty legal mess.  So I stay away.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: fostert</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673297</link> <dc:creator>fostert</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:58:15 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673297</guid> <description>Thanks for having this discussion, Jimmie.  But I won&#039;t address your comments or anyone else&#039;s.  I come from a different perspective, and it&#039;s too radical for any politician to mention.  I don&#039;t think there should be marriages at all.  At least not from the government perspective.  As far as the government is concerned, we should all get civil unions.  Everyone should be able to enter into a binding contract with one other person.  Only churches should be able to conduct marriages.  And they can define those however they want.  This isn&#039;t really so radical.  We already have it, but we just legally call a heterosexual union a &quot;marriage.&quot;  But not every church will accept those &quot;marriages.&quot;  Let&#039;s put it this way.  Suppose I were dating an orthodox Jewish girl.  I could get married in her synagogue.  But not until I got &quot;recircumcised.&quot;  Apparently, the first circumcision wasn&#039;t good enough for them (done by a Goyim).  Fine, but the government isn&#039;t asking that of me, are they?  I bring this up because different churches have different standards on marriages.  And they have every right to impose those standards.  The government has no such right.  But they do have a right to enforce contract law.  To me, that&#039;s the solution.  Everyone gets a civil contract, and if you want a religious marriage on top of that, go to your church to get it.  To me, this is a no-brainer.  But for some reason, it&#039;s considered too radical to talk about. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for having this discussion, Jimmie.  But I won&#039;t address your comments or anyone else&#039;s.  I come from a different perspective, and it&#039;s too radical for any politician to mention.  I don&#039;t think there should be marriages at all.  At least not from the government perspective.  As far as the government is concerned, we should all get civil unions.  Everyone should be able to enter into a binding contract with one other person.  Only churches should be able to conduct marriages.  And they can define those however they want.  This isn&#039;t really so radical.  We already have it, but we just legally call a heterosexual union a &quot;marriage.&quot;  But not every church will accept those &quot;marriages.&quot;  Let&#039;s put it this way.  Suppose I were dating an orthodox Jewish girl.  I could get married in her synagogue.  But not until I got &quot;recircumcised.&quot;  Apparently, the first circumcision wasn&#039;t good enough for them (done by a Goyim).  Fine, but the government isn&#039;t asking that of me, are they?  I bring this up because different churches have different standards on marriages.  And they have every right to impose those standards.  The government has no such right.  But they do have a right to enforce contract law.  To me, that&#039;s the solution.  Everyone gets a civil contract, and if you want a religious marriage on top of that, go to your church to get it.  To me, this is a no-brainer.  But for some reason, it&#039;s considered too radical to talk about.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mr. Science Guy</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673258</link> <dc:creator>Mr. Science Guy</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:33:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673258</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;ll answer it this way - gay marriage and civil unions are two separate things that serve two separate purposes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If that&#039;s your position, it appears you no longer require an answer to: &quot;2) What does gay marriage provide that some version of &#8220;civil union&#8221; does not?&quot; </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I&#039;ll answer it this way &#8211; gay marriage and civil unions are two separate things that serve two separate purposes.</p></blockquote><p>If that&#039;s your position, it appears you no longer require an answer to: &quot;2) What does gay marriage provide that some version of &ldquo;civil union&rdquo; does not?&quot;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jimmie</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673253</link> <dc:creator>Jimmie</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:26:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673253</guid> <description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-673251&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Mr. Science Guy&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Ah, so your rebuttal of his claim is, &#8220;The two statements you made seem to me to be contradictory.&#8221; That&#8217;s far more to the point, but not originally well communicated. Instead, you appeared to be saying, &#8220;demanding equal treatment under the law amounts to demanding the right to break it.&#8221; Sometimes poor communication happens, that&#8217;s why we clarify.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Indeed.
But David still has only danced around my original post on that point. I&#039;ll try to restate it more clearly.
The rule for marriage now is that only a man and a woman may marry each other. I do not see how adding one exception makes it more equal.
David&#039;s answer was to ask why we shouldn&#039;t allow anyone to marry anyone else in whatever combination they chose. That certainly seems to me like he was granting the validity of my point by saying that granting one exception would not, but granting every exception certainly would.
I grant that he&#039;s right, but it doesn&#039;t really go to my point. In fact, I said pretty much the same thing back in the blog post. His real question was &quot;why shouldn&#039;t we?&quot; and I think I answered that question as well.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Evidently poor communication again&#8211;but I hope I&#8217;ve provided the clarification you need to get back to the point of contention.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Okay, I&#039;ll grant that he was trying to address part of my point from an entirely different direction (though I&#039;ll say that he could simply move to one of the states that grant more generous allowances for civil unions, and there are those which do). I&#039;ll answer it this way - gay marriage and civil unions are two separate things that serve two separate purposes. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a
href="#comment-673251" rel="nofollow">@Mr. Science Guy</a></p><blockquote><p>Ah, so your rebuttal of his claim is, &ldquo;The two statements you made seem to me to be contradictory.&rdquo; That&rsquo;s far more to the point, but not originally well communicated. Instead, you appeared to be saying, &ldquo;demanding equal treatment under the law amounts to demanding the right to break it.&rdquo; Sometimes poor communication happens, that&rsquo;s why we clarify.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed.</p><p>But David still has only danced around my original post on that point. I&#039;ll try to restate it more clearly.</p><p>The rule for marriage now is that only a man and a woman may marry each other. I do not see how adding one exception makes it more equal.</p><p>David&#039;s answer was to ask why we shouldn&#039;t allow anyone to marry anyone else in whatever combination they chose. That certainly seems to me like he was granting the validity of my point by saying that granting one exception would not, but granting every exception certainly would.</p><p>I grant that he&#039;s right, but it doesn&#039;t really go to my point. In fact, I said pretty much the same thing back in the blog post. His real question was &quot;why shouldn&#039;t we?&quot; and I think I answered that question as well.</p><blockquote><p>Evidently poor communication again&ndash;but I hope I&rsquo;ve provided the clarification you need to get back to the point of contention.</p></blockquote><p>Okay, I&#039;ll grant that he was trying to address part of my point from an entirely different direction (though I&#039;ll say that he could simply move to one of the states that grant more generous allowances for civil unions, and there are those which do). I&#039;ll answer it this way &#8211; gay marriage and civil unions are two separate things that serve two separate purposes.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Mr. Science Guy</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673251</link> <dc:creator>Mr. Science Guy</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:53:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673251</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe I addressed the claim he made in that point. Here&#039;s what he said: &quot;The argument for gay marriage isn&#226;��t &#039;but we really want to&#039;. It is that as citizens of the United States of America, everyone should have an equal right to marry the person they love.&quot;
I don&#039;t see a lot of daylight between those two sentences. When you drill down to the center of every law, there&#039;s a mechanicsm that prevents someone from doing something they really want to do. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Ah, so your rebuttal of his claim is, &quot;The two statements you made seem to me to be contradictory.&quot; That&#039;s far more to the point, but not originally well communicated. Instead, you appeared to be saying, &quot;demanding equal treatment under the law amounts to demanding the right to break it.&quot; Sometimes poor communication happens, that&#039;s why we clarify.
&lt;blockquote&gt;So long as the marriage law is equal, and David had yet to address my point that it is, &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Incorrect. David&#039;s rebuttal of your claim was &quot;There are over 200 rights that you gain in Washington with a marriage license; a homosexual civil union gets you 30 of those rights.&quot; At this point you can argue that his evidence is incorrect, or that it doesn&#039;t prove his claim of inequality under the law...but your statement that he didn&#039;t address your point says you couldn&#039;t follow his argument well enough to know what he was talking about. Evidently poor communication again--but I hope I&#039;ve provided the clarification you need to get back to the point of contention. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I believe I addressed the claim he made in that point. Here&#039;s what he said: &quot;The argument for gay marriage isn&acirc;��t &#039;but we really want to&#039;. It is that as citizens of the United States of America, everyone should have an equal right to marry the person they love.&quot;</p><p>I don&#039;t see a lot of daylight between those two sentences. When you drill down to the center of every law, there&#039;s a mechanicsm that prevents someone from doing something they really want to do.</p></blockquote><p>Ah, so your rebuttal of his claim is, &quot;The two statements you made seem to me to be contradictory.&quot; That&#039;s far more to the point, but not originally well communicated. Instead, you appeared to be saying, &quot;demanding equal treatment under the law amounts to demanding the right to break it.&quot; Sometimes poor communication happens, that&#039;s why we clarify.</p><blockquote><p>So long as the marriage law is equal, and David had yet to address my point that it is,</p></blockquote><p>Incorrect. David&#039;s rebuttal of your claim was &quot;There are over 200 rights that you gain in Washington with a marriage license; a homosexual civil union gets you 30 of those rights.&quot; At this point you can argue that his evidence is incorrect, or that it doesn&#039;t prove his claim of inequality under the law&#8230;but your statement that he didn&#039;t address your point says you couldn&#039;t follow his argument well enough to know what he was talking about. Evidently poor communication again&#8211;but I hope I&#039;ve provided the clarification you need to get back to the point of contention.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jimmie</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/11/20/gay-marriage-questions/comment-page-1/#comment-673228</link> <dc:creator>Jimmie</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:33:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=6707#comment-673228</guid> <description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-673223&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Mr. Science Guy&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s much easier to argue when you can cast the opposing viewpoint to be anything you want&#8230; But the point David made was that the exception to the law is justified by the principle of equal treatment under the law. You might want to address that claim, instead of substituting a different one.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I believe I addressed the claim he made in that point. Here&#039;s what he said: &quot;The argument for gay marriage isn&#8217;t &#039;but we really want to&#039;. It is that as citizens of the United States of America, everyone should have an equal right to marry the person they love.&quot;
I don&#039;t see a lot of daylight between those two sentences. When you drill down to the center of every law, there&#039;s a mechanicsm that prevents someone from doing something they really want to do. Polygamists undoubtedly love all the people with whom they are entangled, but that has never been a reason to overturn polygamy laws, nor should it be. So long as the marriage law is equal, and David had yet to address my point that it is, changing it only to satisfy the desires of a minority is foolhardy. It&#039;s tinkering with something that is vastly important to our society on what is essentially a whim. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a
href="#comment-673223" rel="nofollow">@Mr. Science Guy</a></p><blockquote><p> I&rsquo;m sure it&rsquo;s much easier to argue when you can cast the opposing viewpoint to be anything you want&hellip; But the point David made was that the exception to the law is justified by the principle of equal treatment under the law. You might want to address that claim, instead of substituting a different one.</p></blockquote><p>I believe I addressed the claim he made in that point. Here&#039;s what he said: &quot;The argument for gay marriage isn&rsquo;t &#039;but we really want to&#039;. It is that as citizens of the United States of America, everyone should have an equal right to marry the person they love.&quot;</p><p>I don&#039;t see a lot of daylight between those two sentences. When you drill down to the center of every law, there&#039;s a mechanicsm that prevents someone from doing something they really want to do. Polygamists undoubtedly love all the people with whom they are entangled, but that has never been a reason to overturn polygamy laws, nor should it be. So long as the marriage law is equal, and David had yet to address my point that it is, changing it only to satisfy the desires of a minority is foolhardy. It&#039;s tinkering with something that is vastly important to our society on what is essentially a whim.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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