The Town-Hall Debate Liveblogging Thread

I’m starting to think that the entire election is riding on tonight’s debate. I know how that reads, but if John McCain turns in a mediocre performance, doesn’t substantially address the mortgage crisis and explain just who was in the middle of the whole mess, and doesn’t knock Obama off his game, this thing could well be over tonight.

I hope that’s not the case. I’d like to see a competitive election all the way to November, but Johnny Mac is proving to be a pretty uninspired campaigner.

Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin warn us to watch out for “ringers” asking questions.

For those of you who will be reading your way around the blogosphere during tonight’s debate, here’s a list of bloggers who will be live-blogging tonight’s shindig.

Sister Toldjah
Ann Althouse
Ace of Spades
The NRO Crew at The Corner
Hot Air
Jules Crittenden
Cassy Fiano
Jim Treacher
Robert McCain

I expect that The Anchoress will be live-blogging, though I don’t know that for sure. If it changes, I’ll change the post to reflect the direct links.

Michelle Malkin again has a debate game you can all play: Guess the Debate Question!

As usual, updates will fall below the jump, most recent stuff at the bottom, because it’s a lot easier for me to update that way.

Both Cassy and Hot Air have embedded video links in their posts. I’m not going to do that to you since the embed will have to reset every time you refresh the post. That’s just a pain in the caboose. But do head over there and watch, if you don’t want to watch any television coverage.

8:51 – Chris Wallace reports it’s cold in the hall at Belmont University tonight. Advantage Obama? We all know the old guy who hails from the Seventh Circle of Hell hates it cold.

Okay, seriously. The thing he did say is that the audience is composed of 80 honest-to-God uncommitted, undecided voters who have been vetted face to face by the Gallup organization. This bugs me. At this point, less than a month before the election, if you don’t at least have a serious lean toward one candidate or the other, you’re either not paying attention or you have a real decision-making problem. Do they expect me to believe that folks like that are the ones who should be asking questions on the behalf of American voters? Can we get some folks with some intellectual curiosity and a modicum of decisiveness instead, please?

I hate the continual MSM pandering to the “undecideds” as if they’re wizened voices of moderation. Usually, they’re just folks who flip a coin on election night, if they vote at all.

9:00 – Let’s get it on!

9:03 – Tom Brokaw, Keeper of the Sacred Questions. You’d think that by now we would have dispensed with the notion of elites moderating our national conversations.

9:04 – Alan Shaffer: How do we bail out individuals who got themselves in hot water?

Obama: Worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. We’re all scared. It’s all George Bush’s fault. Deregulation is at fault. My answer? Bust the chops of people who run businesses (Notes AIG’s junket). Middle Class tax cuts. Help people stay in their homes. State and local spending, you know, like the New Deal.

McCain: We’re angry and a little scared. Here’s my plan: energy independence, tax cuts, runaway government spending.

A reform package that leads to reform and peace in the world. Okay…that makes no sense.

We have to deal with home values by ordering the SecTreas to buy up all the mortgages and renegotiate with individuals for the lower value of their homes. It’ll be expensive.

Well, damned right it will, Senator. And it won’t solve the core problem of there being no consequences now for those peoples’ horrible decisions to buy more house than they could ever afford.

Nothing about Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Nice whiff, Johnny Mac.

Brokaw: Who will you name SecTreas?

McCain: “Not you, Tom”. Really, he doesn’t have a sure name but it has to be someone who Americans recognize, like Obama supporter Warren Buffet or my very own Meg Whitman.

Obama: Buffet’s okay. McCain and I disagree on the economy so the SecTreas has to care about you.

Awww…let’s name Teddy Ruxpin Secretary of the Treasury!

Also, he wnts to cut taxes on “ninety-five percent of working Americans”. How many of those Americans pay no taxes right now? It’s quite a lot.

9:12 – Oliver Clark: How does this bailout help me?

McCain: Rescue, not bailout. I went back to Washington to get more protections for taxpayers.

Ooh! Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac! Ooh! He named Obama and “his cronies in Washington” who gave out those risky loans. McCain’s pointing out how he stood up against the risky behavior. he’s naming the Democrats as resisting the changes and getting all sorts of campaign contributions. Says Obama got the second-most campaign contributions from them “in history…in history”.

Back to his original plan.

“Fannie and Freddie were the catalyst…the match that started this forest fire”

Obama: Right now, the credit markets are frozen up. he says that many small businesses and some large ones can’t get loans.

Who, Senator? So far as I’ve seen, no one has been denied a business loan to make payroll. Does he mean the debunked McDonalds and Sonic rumors?

Says that deregulation was the biggest problem, is correcting McCain’s history “not surprisingly”. Obama opposed that deregulation.

He says that the bill wasn’t McCain’s bill; he just jumped on it. Obama never promoted Fannie Mae. We’re not interested in politicians pointing fingers.

Well, no kidding, since most of the fingers point squarely at you.

Brokaw: Is the economy going to get much worse before it gets better?

Obama: No. We just need to regulate more and coordinate with other countries, and help families keep their homes and pay their bills. Oh, lobbyists bad.

McCain: It depends on what we do. If we enact my plan, it won’t be a problem. He’s pushing the mortgage buy-up plan of his hard. I do hate that idea. American workers are the best in the world, and we have to give them the chance to do their best.

9:18 – Teresa Finch: How can we trust you with our money when both parties got us into this mess?

Obama: I understand. he’s babbling right now, kind of. There’s a lot of blame to go around, but let’s remember history. It’s all George Bush’s fault. It’s the national debt’s fault.

But the bailout really blows that up and Barack Obama was right in the middle of causing that.

Says what he’s going to do is spend some money on health care and energy. He says he’ll cut more than he spends.

Really? What are these spending cuts, exactly? This is the first I’ve ever heard of them.

McCain: The system is broken, but I’ve been trying to fix it for a while now and I’m bipartisan. Obama isn’t. He’s never bucked his party. Ever.

“Look at our records instead of our rhetoric.”

He’s hammering Obama on his spending and advising people not to take his word on his record but to check out independent watchdogs like the American Taxpayers’ Union.

Ouch. His shot at Obama on earmarks hurt him.

He mentions Nuclear power at an energy option.

Brokaw: Of health care, energy, and entitlement reform, wht are your priorities and in what order would you work on them?

McCain: I think we can work on all of them at the same time. We’ll need bipartisan solutions and I can do that. Obama never has.

Obama: We have to prioritize.

He then doesn’t prioritize.

Oh wait, he kind of does: energy, health care, education.

Says we have to look at the records. Says he’ll go through the budget line by line and get rid of bad programs and make good programs efficient. Hits McCain on his tax cut.

9:28: Theora, Internet Question – What sacrifices will you ask every American to make to get us out of this miss.

McCain: I’ll ask them to eliminate some programs.

Hmmm…an interesting tack. Can we make the government smaller by using this financial crisis as a springboard? I’ve never considered that.

Says that he’ll look at defense spending and make it work better. Earmarks have to go. Recommends a spending freeze for all but defense, veterans benefits, and some vital programs.

Obama: Uses 9/11 to hit Bush for his “go out and shop” comment.

Except that actually kept our economy from hitting rock bottom at the time. It saved us and I’m sure that history will reflect that.

We need to use energy better, explore more oil and get offshore drilling. He repeats the canard about existing leases. Lots of alternative energy. Oh, and we need to go out and buy new cars and nw stuff to make our homes more enrgy efficient.

So his real sacrifice for us is, basically, “go out and shop”.

Oh, and he didn’t mention any sacrifices.

Brokaw: Who “got drunk” when it came to debt and spending? How do you stop that?

Obama: We need to control our debts.

Remember, folks, he hasn’t mentioned a single thing he’d cut yet and lots of stuff he’s going to spend more of. And he’ll tax the people who produce jobs, which should be a real boon to the economy.

Oh yeah, and class warfare. Yawn.

And I’m fairly sure that he just walked right up to the edge of suggesting Communism with that remark about the schoolteacher. He doesn’t understand capitalism at all. Or maybe he does and he doesn’t care.

McCain: Obama is the new Hoover with his tax increases. Heh.

Obama wants to respond, but he’s out of time. Brokaw holds the line. Yay!

9:38 – Landgon, Internet Question: Unfunded entitlements. Brokaw tags on by adding a question about a mandate to fix Social Security. He’s changing the rules on this one,which is fair enough.

Obama: We won’t solve anything until we raise taxes on rich people. He says what Brokaw wouldn’t let him say earlier.

There’s that “95 percent of Americans”. Again, how many of those people pay no taxes already?

He also has no idea how small businesses deal with taxes. Most small businesses have to fine at the highest end of the personal income tax ranges regardless of hos much they make. And, believe me, most of them do make more than $250,000 a year in revenues.

Oh, and he didn’t answer the question.

McCain: I’ll answer the question. And he does, kind of, on Social Security. He wants to do the bipartisan thing. Well, okay. But how? I’m sure he recalls how the President tried to do that, but has his efforts demagogued by the Democrats until it was dead.

9:43 – Ingrid Jackson: What about environmental issues like climate chance and green jobs?

Ugh. I’m not looking forward to this. Both of these guys believe in the AGW myth and will use the power of the government to do stuff about it.

McCain: Nuclear energy. Well, that’s better than the other stuff he likes, such as carbon swapping and such.

Obama: This is one of the biggest challenges of our times.

By my count, this is the third issue he’s qualified that way.

We need to “make an investment”. That means lots of government spending. Lots and lots of government spending.

Says McCain voted against alternative fuels. Is that true, or is it true that McCain voted against big government pork to alternative fuel companies.

Says also that “we can’t drill our way out of the problem”. Another canard that no one has ever contended.

Brokaw: Hey guys. We ahve time limits. Obama makes a dig at McCain. McCain talls Tom to wave and he’ll see it. Brokaw asks if we need an energy “Manhattan Project”.

McCain: Sure, it’s appropriate for research, but when it gets to production, it should go to the private sector. Takes another shot at Obama for his pork-barrel voting.

Says oil-drilling offshore is vital to “bridge the gap”.

9:50 – Lindsey Trella: Should health care be trated as a commodity.

Obama: Well, uhhh, err, I get asked about health care a lot. Government intervention in health care is a “moral” imperative. Government will “work” with your doctors to reduce costs. If you don’t have health insurance, you can get Congress’ plan without pre-existing conditions.

And he’s wrong about McCain’s health care plan. See Michael Cannon and James Capretta.

McCain: Obama’s solutions are all government-based. His plan will fine small business and indivisuals for not complying. I’ll let you buy health care coverage across state lines.

Brokaw: Is health care a privilege, a right, or a responsibility.

McCain: It’s a responsibility to make it as affordable as possible. I’m leery of government mandates and Obama’s potential fines make people nervous.

Obama: It should be a right. We have lots of money. Let’s have the government take it and give it to other people. My dying Mom should not have had to rgue with insurance companies over coverage.

Says if you have a health care plan you like, you keep it and I’ll lower the plan. “Small businesses will not have a mandate” but will get a tax credit. He says he’ll make you get health care for your children.

Says it is true that he thinks it is important for government to crack down on cheating insurance companies.

Obama’s run over time again. Again. Again.

Prattle. Prattle. Prattle.

McCain: Did we hear the size of the fine?

9:59 – Phil Elliot: How will the recent economic problems affect our ability to be a peace maker in the world? He really stressed the word “maker” there.

That’s not much of a foreign policy question, though.

McCain: We do need a strong economy. No nation can have a strong one and be a strong military power. “America is the greatest force for good in the history of the world.” “We are peace makers and peace keepers”. We need to be wise about when we use our military nd that wisdom comes from experience. I have it.

Lord, this debate has been boring. There’s been no heat at all. McCain is not really winning.

Oh, and McCain’s gong to get dinged by the MSM for his pronunciation of the word “Kosovo”.

Says Obama’s been wrong about Iraq and Russia. We don’t have the time for on the job training.

Obama: I don’t understand how we could go into Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11, while al-Qaeda set up base camps everywhere else. He attributes the “quick and easy war” and “greeted as liberators” to McCain, which I believe is flatly wrong.

That, folks, is completely incorrect and a bad strawman to boot.

Says we can’t spend money on those poor Iraqis. We need it for big government programs here! Andy McCarthy says he’s lying.

Says our respect around the world has been diminished. Oh yeah? Ask Iraq. Ask Georgia. Ask the Ukraine.

Brokaw: What will be the Obama or McCain Doctrines on places like Darfur, Rwanda, or Somalis when no national security interests are at stake.

Obama: We have to act when there’s a strong moral reason to act. When genocide and ethnic cleansing is at stake, we must intervene when possible. But we can’t act everywhere.

Well, there was genocide and ethnic cleansing going on in Iraq. By his measure, our intervention there was warranted. Let me say that again. Barack Obama just justified our going into Iraq. Will McCain jump on that?

Says that we can’t really go without our allies.

McCain: If we had done what Obama wanted to do, we would have left a mess that we would have gone back to fix later on.

Gah, Senator…please hit him on what he just said. He left the door wide open. Jonah Goldberg hammers him on this. He’s saying something now that’s diametrically opposed to what he said not that long ago.

Says we must do whatever we can to prevent genocide. We have to temper it with our ability to beneficially influence the situation, which requires a cool hand.

His answer absolutely stinks on this.

10:10 – Katie Ham (?):Should we respect Pakistan’s sovereignty and not go in afer al-Qaeda.

Obama: We made a mistake, got distracted by Iraq, blah, blah, blah. He says he knows exactly where bin Laden is, in Northwest Pakistan. Really? Then you’re the only one who knows for sure around this side of the world. Opinions tend to vary.

I hate the way he says “Pakistan”. It sounds like he’s trying too hard to be urbane. It’s not natural-sounding.

Says he’ll insist they go after bin Laden. How? Says we have to act, no matter what Pakistan says.

McCain: My hero is Teddy Roosevelt. My opponent apparently never heard of “speak softly and carry a big stock” because he talks very loudly. He shouldn’t trumpet his desire to invade Pakistan so loudly because it ticks them off.

You know, I’m struck by how similar the positions of these two are in a lot of things.

Obama wants an illegal follow-up. Brokaw tries to stop him but McCain will let him have one if he gets one.

Obama: I’m not saying we’ll invade Pakistan. I’m just saying that if Pakistan won’t or can’t go after bin Laden, we’ll invade Pakistan.

Says it’s not his fault that popular opinion is against us. It’s because of Musharraf.

McCain: I’ve been a military leader. I know what to do. Obama doesn’t.

Brokaw: British commander says we can’t win and that we need an “acceptable dictator”. What do you both think?

Obama: We have to make the Iraqis take more responsibility. How?

Seriously. How? You can’t rush army-building. You can’t rush the building of a functional civil society.

Says that Karzai has to do better by his people. He doesn’t have to be a dictator, but they have to be responsive to the Afghan people.

Umm…on whose authority did he do this? He’s a Senator. How is he telling foreign leaders what they must do, on our behalf??

McCain: We need the same kind of “secure and hold” strategy in Afghanistan that Obama was wrong about in Iraq.

10:19 – Alden, Internet question: How do we get Russia to behave well without starting another Cold War.

McCain: I don’t see another Cold War. I’ve been a foe of Putin for a long time and I’ve known him for the tyrant he is. He’s eyeing the Ukraine. We need to provide “moral support” and advocate support for them to enter NATO. We need to make Russia pay penalties, with international pressure, like through the G8.

Obama: We need to give lots of moral support, but also financial support, too.

Okay, so he’s going to spend more money here and more money to all these potential and current allies. Where in the world is he getting all this money from?

Says he said the situation in Georgia was unsustainable before it broke bad. Says we need to predict the challenges before they happen. Okay, how?

Back to Afghanistan and Iraq. We have to be strategic.

Brokaw: Is Russia an “evil Empire” a yes or no quesiton.

Obama: Err…maybe, with a whole paragraph to not answer the question.

McCain: Maybe. Brokaw laughs. McCain says it’s kind of a trick question because there are bad consequences to either answer and they have not fully gone one way or the other.

First, how is Brokaw getting to ask all these questions? He’s asked more than any of the people or the internet. Isn’t this supposed to be a Town Hall debate and not a Tom Brokaw Debate.

10:25 – (Missed the name) Shirey, Chief Petty Officer: Will you attack Iran if there is a verified threat about Israel or will you wait for the UN?

McCain: Hell no we won’t wait. But Iran is a threat right now by trying to get nukes. If you were Israel, what would you think of their nuclear ambitions coupled with Mad Mahmoud’s statements? Obama wants to meet him without preconditions. Let’s build a “league of democracies” to work against Iran’s nuclear push. “We can never allow a second holocaust to take place.”

Obama: “We can not allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon.” “It’s unacceptable”. We won’t take military options off the table. Basically, he’s giving the same answer that McCain just gave, but stressing diplomacy more and alternative energy more.

By the way, we hardly buy any oil from Iran. Our energy independence will barely affect them because they are selling a ton to China and Russia. No word on that.

Says there will be “dire consequences” if they don’t change their behavior. That is the exact language in the UN resolution that authorized our toppling Saddam Hussein. Is he backing the president yet again?

10:30 – Peggy, Internet question: What don’t you know and how will you learn it?

Egad, what a dumb question!

Obama: My wife can tell you that. He doesn’t answer the question. He tells us what he does know. Says the country gave him opportunity. Well, actually, a terrorist named Bill Ayers gave him opportunity. Says his Mom scrimped so he could attend the best schools. I thought, according to his wife, that his student loans let him attend the best schools.

We need fundamental change. Okay, so here’s nothing he doesn’t know.

McCain: What I don’t know is what all of us don’t know – what is going to happen in the future. I’ve spent my whole life serving the country.

Kathryn Lopez makes a great point right at the end. Why has Obama never been asked about his support for infanticide?

I don’t like either answer and, to be honest, McCain’s answer is particularly weak there. He believes in America. Well, fine. We know that.

Brokaw: Thanks and get out of my way. I can’t read the teleprompter!

This was tedious. Who won? Nobody. McCain could have won, but he was mostly boring. Obama won, I suppose, by not losing. He did seem fairly petulant

Obama made some mistakes that the MSM should jump on, but won’t, especially in the way that he endorsed the rationale for going into Iraq not once but twice.

The big loser here is Tom Brokaw. He killed any energy the debate could have had. He ruined the town hall style of the debate by asking so many of his own questions. He also picked a lot of really boring questions from the internet and the crowd. In that, he helped Barack Obama a lot because no question surprised him at all. Brokaw was boring and stifling and a horrible choice.

The one astonishing thing I heard is that John McCain wants to nationalize a healthy chunk of the home mortgage industry. I feel like an idiot now for not getting in way over my head and taking on a mortgage I couldn’t afford. As it stands, I’m going to be punished for staying in an apartment and being fiscally-responsible. I’m not wealthy. In fact, I’m an underpaid state public safety employee. What do I get? I get to pay for the people who were greedy and got themselves in trouble.

Thanks, John McCain.

Tags: Ace of Spades, Ann Althouse, Barack Obama, Hot Air, Jim Treacher, John McCain, Jules Crittenden, Michelle Malkin, NRO, Sister Toldjah, Stacy McCain, The Anchoress