(And I mean real blood, burned flesh, broken bones kind of torture; not shook up after a simulated suffocation/drowing session, of which you will fully recover.)

But, you probably still think China is better. Why don't you move there?

Okay, so Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and George Bush have ordered the mistreatment of prisoners. They aren’t in jail yet. Why is that?

Because what they, and the Democratic leadership of Congress explicitly approved, was legal. Here in America, we don't put people in jail for stuff that you think ought to be a crime.

Not yet at least.

Still, your moral equivalence sickens me. If all the Chinese had done was to waterboard three people every six years, I would not complain nearly as much. But they don't. They do far, far worse. And they do it for reprehensible reasons that should deeply offend someone who professes a love of freedom and human rights like you have.

That you feel the need to spend more time criticizing this country rather than China tells me that your moral compass is in sore need of recalibration.

Okay, so Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, and George Bush have ordered the mistreatment of prisoners. They aren't in jail yet. Why is that? And why aren't the members of Congress who have legalized waterboarding and every technique you described above in jail? Clearly, we have only enforced previously existing laws on those that committed the acts. We have not enforced those previously existing laws on those that ordered the acts. But, hey, it's all legal now, so so why worry? You have expressed support for the Military Commissions Act. And that act legalized the techniques that China uses. You are criticizing China for using techniques that you praise America for using. Unlike you, I have actually talked to people (Tibetans, naturally) who have been tortured by the Chinese. And its clear that the Chinese methods are very similar to ours. And those Tibetans are astonished that we would would use methods that are just as harsh as what they received. They used to think we were better, but now they know the truth. It made me stop and think when a Tibetan monk who was tortured by the Chinese prayed for my soul because my country uses Chinese torture techniques. You need to travel to Asia and get a lesson in reality. Sadly, I know you would approve of their methods if only an American were using them. You have already expressed that view clearly. There is a moral equivalence, and it is simple: Torture is torture, and nobody should be let off the hook just because they're American. And that includes the entire Bush Administration. Unlike you, I don't support torture, but I might be willing to make an exception for those that approved it. So let's start with Dick Cheney if we want to torture people. And then let's move on to fanatical right wing bloggers who praise torture when we commit it, but rail against it when someone else does it. You wouldn't mind a light waterboarding, would you? After all, you think it's perfectly harmless.

Of the prisoner deaths:

- At least 26 have been investigated as criminal homicides involving possible abuse.

- At least 29 are attributed to suspected natural causes or accident.

- 22 died during an insurgent mortar attack on April 6, 2004, on Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

- At least 21 are attributed to "justifiable homicide," when U.S. troops used deadly force against rioting, escaping or threatening prisoners and investigations found the troops acted appropriately.

So only 26 of the deaths, in five years, could be attributed to direct improper actions of our soldiers. Unlike the Chinese, we decry these deaths and fully investigate the incidents. We put those guilty of abuse in prison.

I don't expect that you'll see that as different from what the Chinese do to their prisoners, but I don't particularly care to try either. Like I said, if you can't see a clear difference between the US and Red China, I don't have any help for you. You're beyond me.

Prisoners in China don't gain weight while they're there. They don't have their holy books handed to them by guards wearing gloves so as not to befoul the covers with their infidel skin. They aren't treated for their pre-existing medical conditions.

They are tortured – real torture that results in burn scars and crippled legs. I'm sorry you haven't the clarity of mind to see that. These probably aren't the threads for you.

http://www.clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2004/6/12…

Here is a picture (hand drawn sketch-nothing gross) & an explaination of the "tiger bench" if any one is interested: