It is a Lovely Religion of Peace You Have There, Sir. Now Please Put Down the Machete.
How is it that I keep hearing that stuff like this isn’t “True Islam”, yet I never seem to see hordes of “True Islam” worshippers hitting the streets to, say, free this teacher.
Thousands of Islamic fanatics wielding clubs and knives are marching through the streets of Khartoum demanding the execution of teddy bear teacher Gillian Gibbons.
As the mother-of-two started a 15-day prison term, protestors left mosques across the Sudanese capital to denounce the “lenient verdict” and call for the death penalty.
The mob descended on Martyrs Square, which is in front of the presidential palace, many arriving in pick-up trucks with loudspeakers blaring messages condemning Miss Gibbons.
For those of you not hip to the story, here it is in a nutshell. Gibbons is a British citizen who decided to work in the Sudan teaching dirt-poor, oppressed children in the hope that one day they could use their education to actually build a life for themselves that didn’t involve the genocide and squalor their parents are satisfied to live in today. The kids love Gibbons and she them, by all accounts. She was a graet asset to the school, not just teaching students, but training other teachers there. She had a teddy bear in the classroom that was, more or less, a class mascot. The kids wanted to name it, so she let them pick several names and, in a neat little means of teaching kids just a little bit of freedom and democracy, let them vote for the one they liked the best. The kids chose “Mohammed”.
That, of course, just won’t do in a country ruled by the Religion of Peace. The school’s secretary ratted Gibbons out to the authorities. So, the government of Sudan snatched Gibbons up and is charging her with the crime, basically, of blasphemy. In other words, letting the children give a cherished and loved toy the same name as the God you’d think Muslims would want them to cherish and love also is an offense for which jail time (or worse!) is a fitting punishment.
Apparently, there is a sizeable contingent int he Sudanese office of the Religion of Peace who thinks that allowing children to show their affection for their God by naming a favorite stuffed animal after Him is an offense worthy of execution. And by the look of the machetes and such carried by the protestors, they’re ready to make that happen today.
One wonders if those same machetes were used to hack Sudanese Christians to death in the ongoing genocide there.
It seems to me like the most visible aspects of Islam might well hew close to what is “True” than what we’re told by various Imams. I’m beginning to think that this “True Islam” talk from various Imams might just be a little concern that we might twig to the fact that the line between Militant Islam and Non-Militant Islam isn’t so much bright and sharp as it is smudgy and hard to see unless you get really, really close. Of course, if you’re that close, you’re in machete range, so it’s not all bad from their point of view.
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Category: Fighting the Islamists
I hate angry mobs with machetes. What causes men to abandon reason and take up religion?
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." ~ Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics
If you talk to Christians in Uganda, they will tell you the holocaust was justified because the Jews killed Christ.
It's not about their religion, it's about their barbaric culture.
It's just not as simple as: they're evil/crazy/violent because they're muslim. To think that way is to totally oversimplify the problem.
Perhaps you are seeing this because the big money among Islamic countries is controlled by the most radically fundamentalist countries, specifically Saudi Arabia. Were the US not shipping billions of dollars weekly into the Saudi Kingdom, perhaps they would not have the money to fund thier radical schools that encourage such actions.
It is sort of like judging Christianity by its richest preachers, such as Pat Robertson and James Dobson, who also wield considerable control of their flock (although they have never, to my knowledge, preached anything near the violence of the Muslim Imams).
Yeah, those "big money" countries like The Sudan, Rwanda, Somalia, and Indonesia. Man, those countries are filth rich, aren't they?
Wait. No. they're not.
And what with the "to my knowledge" weasel phrase? You don't even have to guts to trust your own common sense? You know darned well that you have absolutely nothing to fear whatsoever from a violent Christian mob here int he United States or virtually anywhere else because they generally don't exist. a violent Muslim mob, though, you might encounter anywhere. Even in the United States.
Sad. Sad and silly that you guys can so casually turn this into a condemnation of the Christian religions.
"Sad. Sad and silly that you guys can so casually turn this into a condemnation of the Christian religions."
Yup, Christians had their day(s) of infamy, crusades and angry mobs in the past, now they sugar-coat it and just perform crusades on your wallet a la televangelist or tax evasion styles! Somewhat more insidious actually.
Again, jugger, more spineless equivocation.
When are you guys on the left going to toughen up?
When Christians start mobbing in the streets demanding the death of someone who names a teddy bear "Jesus," feel free to trot out the moral equivalency and use violence by Islamists as an excuse to bash Christians. Until then, you are out of line.
By the way, it doesn't take religion for good people to to bad things. A Nobel in physics doesn't make someone an expert in unrelated subjects such as religion, philosophy, psychology, and common sense.
"How is it that I keep hearing that stuff like this isn’t “True Islam”, yet I never seem to see hordes of “True Islam” worshippers hitting the streets to, say, free this teacher."
faulty logic,(as was Ms Cobb's) by the same token christianity is to blame for racism as they didn't/don't "hit the streets" to demand equal rights for all (bull conner was a "good christian")
This isn't hordes of angry men seeking to kill an anonymous teacher for allowing children to name a teddy bear after Mohammed, the teacher is a western woman. It has everything to do with Sudanese fearing the weakening of Islam by western culture. This is not so different from the culture war the U.S. went through for civil rights – we had assassinations too – though the public calls for her execution are definitely disturbing.
I would say it is quite different. These mobs are whipped up by the government and by religious leaders into this outrage to solidify their own personal positions.
ibfamous – I'd suggest you hit the history books. The people who "hit the streets" against slavery were religious folks – mostly Christians. Same for the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
"These mobs are whipped up by the government and by religious leaders into this outrage to solidify their own personal positions."
So you're condemning an entire *religion* for the actions of a few who are using it for personal aggrandizement?
No. I'm condemning a large amount of Muslim political and religious leaders for using their followers for personal power and I'm condemning their followers for going along with it.
Further, I'm condeming the vast majority of Muslims for not being more active in recapturing their religion from those who would use it to dominate and oppress.
"Further, I’m condeming the vast majority of Muslims for not being more active in recapturing their religion from those who would use it to dominate and oppress."
Well, if you have an idea of how the vast majority of Muslims (many or most of whom live in countries run by dictators who use Islam as an excuse for their tyranny) could be active in dissenting without being tortured or killed, I'm sure they'd love to hear it.
Regardless, condemning a religion because of those who distort and misuse it is intellectually lazy.
Further, I’m condeming the vast majority of Muslims for not being more active in recapturing their religion from those who would use it to dominate and oppress.
and you say that after surveying the vast majority of muslims, right? after all, a couple of hundred people on the streets is "a great number" of a religion that has over a billion adherents. or maybe you've been reading the arabic press (who have pretty uniformly mocked sudan's stance on this), or maybe you're more of an urdu man?
the point is, there are crazy people in every religion. islam has its share, for sure. the difference is that when two hundred klansmen march, muslims all over the world aren't posting pictures of their burning crosses and saying "this is christianity" as bloggers in the u.s. regularly do with islam.
I see several familiar lefty names commenting.
Let me ask you lefties a question: Why is it, whenever someone has the audacity to criticize Islam, your first response is ALWAYS to play the Christian card? Why?
I would think, given their horrible record on human rights abuses, their disgusting treatment of women and children, and their Middle Ages mentality in regards to liberty, that you'd be on the front lines, calling them to task.
But you don't. Where is NOW? Why are they so silent? Where's the gay community? Why are they so silent? Where are all of these other groups who will demonstrate week after week over the littlest thing here, but don't do a damn thing about this? Why?
As for the Weinberg quote, give me Albert Einstein any day of the week over Weinberg.
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
Back at you Steve – Why is it that commentators on the right love to talk about how "horrible" and "disgusting" Islam is, without ever having been to an Islamic country?
Yeah, many Islamic countries have a lousy human rights record, but ask anti-American Muslims about Americans and you'll hear a ton about how lousy our human rights record is too.
We play the Christian card because we know that if you are talking about something as broad as "religion", good and evil is a matter of perspective. Arabic media can easily make the U.S. out to be an evil empire, but we're not. Our media can easily make Islam out to be an evil religion, but it isn't.
Dirk – As "lousy" as you may believe our human rights record, it is nothing compared to the cruelties demanded by Sharia law. Not even close.
The fact is that no country run by Muslims has anything close to the individual rights our country, or most other Western countries, enjoy. You can not be openly gay in a country where Sharia enjoys any serious legal consideration. Your daughter could not so much as defend herself from being gang-raped without suffering punishment that, here in the United States, would cause a deafening uproar. That is simply the way it is.
I condemn Islam not to wipe it from the face of the Earth, as most Islamic political and religious leaders wish to do with the various Christian religions. I condemn Islam in the hope that the one billion Muslims will decide that crushing gay people under walls and throwing them off of tall buildings is unacceptable. I hope that Muslims all over world will throw off their oppressors, who they outnumber greatly, and take the risks that our forefathers took to guarantee freedom and prosperity for their children and grandchildren.
I would hope that my fellow Americans here would put away their reflexive shame and work toward the same goal.
Dirk,
Please, you have got to be kidding me. A teacher lets her students name a teddy bear, and people call for her death. An artist puts a crucifix in a jar of piss, throws feces on a picture of the virgin Mary, and last I checked, they're still alive.
Gay in Iran? You'll get your head chopped off? Gang raped? You'll get lashed and thrown in prison. Have sex outside of marriage? Off with your head. And heaven forbid a woman shows something other than her eyes.
It is not only lazy, but EXTREMELY ignorant to even begin to try and compare Middle East and Western values. Is Islam an "evil" religion. Quite frankly, I don't know at this point. Until I see the massive uprising take place to make me think otherwise, I'll go with a tentative yes.
But you avoided the question I asked. Where are all the civil liberties groups? Why aren't they being more vocal? Maybe they're just afraid of having a fatwa placed on them. But they shouldn't be afraid, should they? After all, Islam IS the religion of peace, right?
There are a couple motivations for us wanting to see less of radical Islam; one is for the prosperity of Islamic people, but the one that has led us to act is our national security. Concern for Islamic people isn't why I'm commenting, it probably isn't what motivates you either.
I would also like to see a less authoritarian Islamic culture, for all of our sakes, but we disagree on tactics. I think condemnation of Islam is exactly what the fear-mongering Imams of the world want to hear from the United States. Nothing will prop them up in the eyes of their followers more than the sense that they are locked in a life-or-death struggle with the U.S.
As evidence look at our President's poll numbers after September 11th. I'm not condemning the President, just saying that almost everyone was behind him because he was representing us against attackers. We all appreciated that.
My sense is that donations to a technical education program in the Sudan would do far more to spurn economic growth, and hurt fear-mongering Imams, than every single American banding together to tell Sudanese Muslims that their religion is evil.
One follow-up link from today's news, life under Sharia isn't always as bad as you think.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/01/world/africa/01…
Steve: "But you avoided the question I asked. Where are all the civil liberties groups?"
The "N" in NOW stands for "National" (i.e. throughout all the US states). Many groups don't have international arms. I tend to look to wider human rights groups like Amnesty Int'l and Human Rights Watch, which have, indeed, been on the case for years.
and once again, have you been looking? you realize that most of the press in the muslim world is not in english.
i can read arabic, and i've seen plenty of articles criticizing both the saudi and sudanese government over these recent cases. the point is there is a big uproar about these issues within the muslim world, you're just unable to see it because you don't read the right language.
the weird thing with the khartoum protest is that it was engineered by the sudanese government as a way to deflect attention from darfur–as the NYT reported almost everyone on the street were government employees who were instructed to attend. it's rightwing blogs like this one who have been played by the sudanese government.
Jimmie – i hit the history books everyday, it's what i do. and yes many of the abolitionist were christians and they were a very small but very sincere lobby who were not advocating equal rights for all, just an end to slavery (while others in the religious community were using the old testiment to champion slavery). as for the civil rights, the vast majority of these christians you speak of were the african-americans themsleves. though many white religious leaders and followers did take to the streets, to state that the white christian community marched in force in support of civil rights is pure fantasy.
Well, those weren't radical Christians who flew airliners into the Trade Center.