<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: The Values that Dare Not Speak Their Names</title> <atom:link href="http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/</link> <description>Delivering the Best of the New Media Since 2004.</description> <lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 22:10:31 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator> <item><title>By: Jimmie</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/comment-page-1/#comment-582782</link> <dc:creator>Jimmie</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:42:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=3543#comment-582782</guid> <description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
While the founding fathers probably intended this to avoid the primacy of a particular Protestant denomination and didn&#8217;t envision legal protections for American Muslims, Wiccans, or atheists, the natural extension of their rule has had that result.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
There is no &quot;probably to it&quot;. The founders explicitly said that their intention was that no one church would gain primacy.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
So, I would ask you how you would put into practice a re-establishment of America&#8217;s founding morals and spiritual values that does not, in effect, reinforce the primacy of a state religion?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Let&#039;s start by reversing the current course of government when it comes to religion. Instead of ejecting real religion (as opposed to platitudes that sound religious but are little more than a facade of religiosity) from the public discourse, let&#039;s encourage all religions to give their best parts to society. One could hardly argue that a society that functioned, for example, with the Golden Rule as an exemplar of public behavior would be worse than the society we have now.
Then let&#039;s openly and honestly accept that religion did in fact play a fundamental role in founding the nation. If it were not for people acting on their deeply-held religious beliefs, most of the societal advances we have today would likely not have happened.
I am not saying that we should institute mandatory prayers nor that we should force everyone to go to school, but we&#039;d be well-advised to allow their communities to hold up the religions they find important to them (or no religion at all, if that is what they choose) and use the guiding tenets of those religions to enrich us all. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>While the founding fathers probably intended this to avoid the primacy of a particular Protestant denomination and didn&rsquo;t envision legal protections for American Muslims, Wiccans, or atheists, the natural extension of their rule has had that result.</p></blockquote><p>There is no &quot;probably to it&quot;. The founders explicitly said that their intention was that no one church would gain primacy.</p><blockquote><p>So, I would ask you how you would put into practice a re-establishment of America&rsquo;s founding morals and spiritual values that does not, in effect, reinforce the primacy of a state religion?</p></blockquote><p>Let&#039;s start by reversing the current course of government when it comes to religion. Instead of ejecting real religion (as opposed to platitudes that sound religious but are little more than a facade of religiosity) from the public discourse, let&#039;s encourage all religions to give their best parts to society. One could hardly argue that a society that functioned, for example, with the Golden Rule as an exemplar of public behavior would be worse than the society we have now.</p><p>Then let&#039;s openly and honestly accept that religion did in fact play a fundamental role in founding the nation. If it were not for people acting on their deeply-held religious beliefs, most of the societal advances we have today would likely not have happened.</p><p>I am not saying that we should institute mandatory prayers nor that we should force everyone to go to school, but we&#039;d be well-advised to allow their communities to hold up the religions they find important to them (or no religion at all, if that is what they choose) and use the guiding tenets of those religions to enrich us all.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bob Adams</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/comment-page-1/#comment-582761</link> <dc:creator>Bob Adams</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:43:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=3543#comment-582761</guid> <description>But there is nothing in the first two paragraphs of the Declaration that wouldn&#039;t be vehemently be supported by Messrs Voltaire and Diderot--or Messrs Rousseau, Locke, and Hobbes. In fact, the Declaration of Independence is a quintessence of a century of Enlightenment thought; the single great example of the Age of Reason put into political practice.
What the Declaration does not call for, and the Constitution specifically denies, is the establishment of a state religion (as opposed to to faith, morals, or spirituality). While the founding fathers probably intended this to avoid the primacy of a particular Protestant denomination and didn&#039;t envision legal protections for American Muslims, Wiccans, or atheists, the natural extension of their rule has had that result.
So, I would ask you how you would put into practice a re-establishment of America&#039;s founding morals and spiritual values that does not, in effect, reinforce the primacy of a state religion? </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But there is nothing in the first two paragraphs of the Declaration that wouldn&#039;t be vehemently be supported by Messrs Voltaire and Diderot&#8211;or Messrs Rousseau, Locke, and Hobbes. In fact, the Declaration of Independence is a quintessence of a century of Enlightenment thought; the single great example of the Age of Reason put into political practice.</p><p>What the Declaration does not call for, and the Constitution specifically denies, is the establishment of a state religion (as opposed to to faith, morals, or spirituality). While the founding fathers probably intended this to avoid the primacy of a particular Protestant denomination and didn&#039;t envision legal protections for American Muslims, Wiccans, or atheists, the natural extension of their rule has had that result.</p><p>So, I would ask you how you would put into practice a re-establishment of America&#039;s founding morals and spiritual values that does not, in effect, reinforce the primacy of a state religion?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jimmie</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/comment-page-1/#comment-579477</link> <dc:creator>Jimmie</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:10:07 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=3543#comment-579477</guid> <description>Bob, you could refer to the opening of the Declaration of Independence for a pretty good summary of those moral and spiritual values. There is a lot that can be unpacked from just a few words. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, you could refer to the opening of the Declaration of Independence for a pretty good summary of those moral and spiritual values. There is a lot that can be unpacked from just a few words.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Bob Adams</title><link>http://www.sundriesshack.com/2007/11/07/3543/comment-page-1/#comment-579409</link> <dc:creator>Bob Adams</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:11:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.sundriesshack.com/?p=3543#comment-579409</guid> <description>This is a comment (&quot;America was founded on certain principles, most of which are undeniably spiritual or moral&quot;) that parallels similar ones I have heard before. I would like to ask what, specifically, those principles are.
There was not a lot of commonality among the signers of the Declaration or the Constitution in terms of moral or spiritual beliefs. There were as many Deists as Puritans. One reason for the wording of the First Amendment was to avoid the disputes of the previous 200-odd years of colonial history, not to mention the still-raw scars of European reformation/ counter-reformation/etc.
Don&#039;t get me wrong. There was a lot of moral/spiritual uplift going on in colonial and revolutionary America. But neither the doctrinaire Puritans of New England nor the hopeful Methodists and Baptists of the Great Awakening nor the dour Anglicans/Episcopalians of the Southern Ascendancy can really be said to have achieved any sort of national outlook that informed the new government.
On the other hand, there was a rising mixture of cultures, races, and religions in the cities and seaports like New York and Philadelphia that if not atheistic was at least irreligious, and that would portend the new nation equally as much as the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock.
If there is a single, common moral/spiritual value held by the framers, it would be religious tolerance--a value that came directly from Voltaire via the Enlightenment to inform the American Republic.
However, I could be wrong. If there is are certain principles, moral and spiritual, that are the bedrock of America, outside of and predating the secular principles of the Age of Reason as set forth in the Declaration and the Constitution, I&#039;d like to know what they are. </description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a comment (&quot;America was founded on certain principles, most of which are undeniably spiritual or moral&quot;) that parallels similar ones I have heard before. I would like to ask what, specifically, those principles are.</p><p>There was not a lot of commonality among the signers of the Declaration or the Constitution in terms of moral or spiritual beliefs. There were as many Deists as Puritans. One reason for the wording of the First Amendment was to avoid the disputes of the previous 200-odd years of colonial history, not to mention the still-raw scars of European reformation/ counter-reformation/etc.</p><p>Don&#039;t get me wrong. There was a lot of moral/spiritual uplift going on in colonial and revolutionary America. But neither the doctrinaire Puritans of New England nor the hopeful Methodists and Baptists of the Great Awakening nor the dour Anglicans/Episcopalians of the Southern Ascendancy can really be said to have achieved any sort of national outlook that informed the new government.</p><p>On the other hand, there was a rising mixture of cultures, races, and religions in the cities and seaports like New York and Philadelphia that if not atheistic was at least irreligious, and that would portend the new nation equally as much as the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock.</p><p>If there is a single, common moral/spiritual value held by the framers, it would be religious tolerance&#8211;a value that came directly from Voltaire via the Enlightenment to inform the American Republic.</p><p>However, I could be wrong. If there is are certain principles, moral and spiritual, that are the bedrock of America, outside of and predating the secular principles of the Age of Reason as set forth in the Declaration and the Constitution, I&#039;d like to know what they are.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
<!-- Served from: www.sundriesshack.com @ 2012-05-23 18:15:57 by W3 Total Cache -->
