Haditha and What we Don't Know.
I haven’t written about the alleged massacre in Haditha, Iraq, mostly because there’s nothing to write about except rumor, allegation, and hyperbole. It is alleged that a group of Marines went on a rampage in the town of Haditha after one of their own was killed by an IED. The investigation is ongoing right now and the facts of that day are not at all clear.
They are certainly not clear enough for me to say, as did Congressman John Murtha, that our Marines killed people “in cold blood”. As a point of fact if the Marines were acting out of rage or revenge, they were “hot-blooded” not cold, but that’s a semantic point. “In cold blood” sounds better though when you’re out to score the big sound byte and make political hay against the President. That’s Murtha’s game and it’s quite obvious that he could care less for the health or welfare of any of our Marines.
Neither can I say, though, that the Marines are innocent of the charges. There’s evidence to suggest that they’re not. There is also exculpatory evidence out there that would weigh in their favor.
And there’s this personal recollection of some of those troops by a CNN reporter who was embedded with them. It’s quite a remarkable read, I thought, not only to read of the conditions the reporter experienced in Haditha but also because it reads very much like a defense of the Marines. Quite honestly I had not expected anyone in the MSM to mount such a defense.
Even with that personal recollection, all we have right now is supposition and character witnesses for and against the Marines (or Marines in general, or the President, or whomever). We have precious few facts and we will remain in that condition until the investigation is complete. Most of us in the blogosphere would be well advised to cool our jets on this story until then.
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I haven’t written about the alleged massacre in Haditha, Iraq, mostly because there’s nothing to write about except rumor, allegation, and hyperbole.
I’m guessing that this didn’t prevent you from writing about Saddam’s WMDs prior to the invasion, although nothing existed there except rumor, allegation and hyperbole. You’ve picked an interesting moment to wait and see.
They are certainly not clear enough for me to say, as did Congressman John Murtha, that our Marines killed people “in cold blood”.
Murtha just got back from Iraq, where he has a close rapport with the military command. Could it be that he knows more about this than you do? Ya think?
That’s Murtha’s game and it’s quite obvious that he could care less for the health or welfare of any of our Marines.
This claim doesn’t hold up. Murtha is a career marine with years in congress during which he supported the military tremendously. He still supports the troops in his statements, casting blame on the impossible situation they’re in, put there by BushCo. He supported the Iraq war until realizing what a horrible mistake it was. If the marines are such a noble instutition, as many Bush supporters argue, then how did they churn out a coward and opportunist such as Murtha? Why are you taking the side of a bunch of marines about whom you know nothing other than they allegedly killed Iraqi civilians, over a marine about which we know a whole lot? Could it simply be you don’t like what the one marine is saying, and you hope against hope that it’s not true?
Quite honestly I had not expected anyone in the MSM to mount such a defense.
I guess politics does make strange bedfellows, given that you’re now holding up a report on CNN as a paragon of credibility, while Murtha’s inside scoop receives your derision. Funny, that. I’m guessing that when CNN reports on bad news from Iraq, you’re happier to believe a military rep who paints the picture as rosy.
Get ready, because there’s a very good chance that what Murtha is saying is true.
I haven’t written about the alleged massacre in Haditha, Iraq, mostly because there’s nothing to write about except rumor, allegation, and hyperbole.
I’m guessing that this didn’t prevent you from writing about Saddam’s WMDs prior to the invasion, although nothing existed there except rumor, allegation and hyperbole. You’ve picked an interesting moment to wait and see.
They are certainly not clear enough for me to say, as did Congressman John Murtha, that our Marines killed people “in cold blood”.
Murtha just got back from Iraq, where he has a close rapport with the military command. Could it be that he knows more about this than you do? Ya think?
That’s Murtha’s game and it’s quite obvious that he could care less for the health or welfare of any of our Marines.
This claim doesn’t hold up. Murtha is a career marine with years in congress during which he supported the military tremendously. He still supports the troops in his statements, casting blame on the impossible situation they’re in, put there by BushCo. He supported the Iraq war until realizing what a horrible mistake it was. If the marines are such a noble instutition, as many Bush supporters argue, then how did they churn out a coward and opportunist such as Murtha? Why are you taking the side of a bunch of marines about whom you know nothing other than they allegedly killed Iraqi civilians, over a marine about which we know a whole lot? Could it simply be you don’t like what the one marine is saying, and you hope against hope that it’s not true?
Quite honestly I had not expected anyone in the MSM to mount such a defense.
I guess politics does make strange bedfellows, given that you’re now holding up a report on CNN as a paragon of credibility, while the comments of a decorated career marine with an inside scoop receives your derision. Funny, that. I’m guessing that when CNN reports on bad news from Iraq, you’re happier to believe a military rep who paints the picture as rosy.
Get ready, because there’s a very good chance that what Murtha is saying is true.
Jimmy, only a coward deletes respectful, civilly-worded comments that he doesn’t like. Keep that in mind when you hit the delete key.
I haven’t written about the alleged massacre in Haditha, Iraq, mostly because there’s nothing to write about except rumor, allegation, and hyperbole.
I’m guessing that this didn’t prevent you from writing about Saddam’s WMDs prior to the invasion, although nothing existed there except rumor, allegation and hyperbole. You’ve picked an interesting moment to wait and see.
They are certainly not clear enough for me to say, as did Congressman John Murtha, that our Marines killed people “in cold blood”.
Murtha just got back from Iraq, where he has a close rapport with the military command. Could it be that he knows more about this than you do? Ya think?
That’s Murtha’s game and it’s quite obvious that he could care less for the health or welfare of any of our Marines.
This claim doesn’t hold up. Murtha is a career marine with years in congress during which he supported the military tremendously. He still supports the troops in his statements, casting blame on the impossible situation they’re in, put there by BushCo. He supported the Iraq war until realizing what a horrible mistake it was. If the marines are such a noble instutition, as many Bush supporters argue, then how did they churn out a coward and opportunist such as Murtha? Why are you taking the side of a bunch of marines about whom you know nothing other than they allegedly killed Iraqi civilians, over a marine about which we know a whole lot? Could it simply be you don’t like what the one marine is saying, and you hope against hope that it’s not true?
Quite honestly I had not expected anyone in the MSM to mount such a defense.
I guess politics does make strange bedfellows, given that you’re now holding up a report on CNN as a paragon of credibility, while the comments of a decorated career marine with an inside scoop receives your derision. Funny, that. I’m guessing that when CNN reports on bad news from Iraq, you’re happier to believe a military rep who paints the picture as rosy.
Get ready, because there’s a very good chance that what Murtha is saying is true.
Pablo,
First, whether I retain your comment depends entirely on two things: 1) whether you remain civil and rational, and 2) whether I feel like it or not. That’s the way it works when you’re a guest in someone else’s house.
Okay, now to your points.
1) If you can’t tell the difference between scattered witness reports and the consensus determination of more than a half-dozen nations, two major UN organizations, the past administration, Congress, and the UN Security Council, I don’t know what to tell you. Your sense of scale is breathtakingly bad.
2) It is possible that Murtha knows more than I. It’s possible also that he has a constituency that pays his speaking fees to satisfy as well. I do not find Murtha credible when it comes to Iraq, considering that what he has said in the past has been directly and pointedly refuted by the military command with whom, you claim, he has a close affinity.
3) Murtha has never supported the war in Iraq. If I’m not mistaken (and if I am, I will apologize now) he voted against toppling Hussein.
4) The Marines consistently produce people of incredible integrity, courage, and personal integrity. It has also produced cads, ruffians, and a Presidential assassin. No institution is perfect, even the very good ones.
5) If you’ll notice, I’ve not taken any side regarding the Haditha investigation, either for or against the Marines in question. That’s the entire point of my post.
6) I’m not claiming in this post that CNN is anything. I highlighted the reporter’s story as a way of illustrating that we simply do not know enough to render a judgement on this story one way or the other unlike the man you say cares so very much for the Marines, who claimed that the men at Haditha murdered people “in cold blood”. For someone who purports to support our soldiers, he sure has a rather funny way of showing it.
If you can’t tell the difference between scattered witness reports and the consensus determination of more than a half-dozen nations, two major UN organizations, the past administration, Congress, and the UN Security Council, I don’t know what to tell you.
That’s just it. It wasn’t a consensus determination. Sure, many nations opined that Saddam had WMDs, but given the large amount of dissenting evidence that was obscured from the public and most of congress, few of them were certain. Without certainty, they had no business invading. (Oh, and all those times members of the Bush Admin claimed they were certain and there was no doubt about the WMDs? Those were lies too.)
Murtha has never supported the war in Iraq. If I’m not mistaken (and if I am, I will apologize now) he voted against toppling Hussein.
Better get out the brown lipstick.
“Murtha voted for the October 10, 2002 resolution that authorized the use of force against Iraq.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Murtha#Views_on_the_2003_Iraq_war
For someone who purports to support our soldiers, he sure has a rather funny way of showing it.
Jimmie, the marines had already tried to cover this up. Sure, an investigation had eventually begun, but the standard MO in this sort of situation is a cover-up. Same happened at My Lai. Same happened at the 3 other alleged massacres by US troops which are currently being investigated. Murtha knew that. He wanted to bring this to the public’s attention in a big way so that it couldn’t be whitewashed, that the perpetrators would be punished, and the administration would be held accountable, as they should be.
If support of our soldiers means to you that we should cut them a break when a few of them get wacky and murder civilians, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I apologize for mistaking Murtha’s initial position on the war. It’s clear given that link that he joined the ranks of the “That darned President fooled me!” brigade that had formed among the left (a position that strikes me as unfailingly funny).
Yes, that Saddam had WMDs was the consensus opinion of those intelligence organs. It is, in fact, still the position of many of those nations given intelligence that had been gathered since our invasion. There was dissenting evidence, hidden from no one (much less a member of Congress), but it was seen as not credible. As a matter of fact, the stipulation that Saddam did possess WMDs was unanimously supported by the UNSC in Resolution 1441.
You have to go a long way from “covering this up” to murdering “in cold blood”. That’s a leap of logic you’re not alowed to make. The point I made about Murtha is that the very day the story broke in the news, he quite publicly leaped to the worst possible conclusion in the most public way. My overall point is that the investigation is continuing and we’d be well-advised to let that investigation run its course before we render judgement.
And, please. Do not for a moment assume that I support the murder of civilians. Only the truly depraved would rejoice in such a thing.