Comments on: Lessons of Fear (and some Fact-Checking to Boot!) http://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/ Delivering the Best of the New Media Since 2004. Tue, 22 May 2012 02:51:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Nickhttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-153508 Nick Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:45:35 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-153508 Thanks for the research. I just finished writing on how the Roosevelt administration used fear far beyond anything in recent memory. It was good to be able to add that the quote isn't even from wartime. Thanks for the research. I just finished writing on how the Roosevelt administration used fear far beyond anything in recent memory. It was good to be able to add that the quote isn't even from wartime.

]]> By: Jimmiehttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152844 Jimmie Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:47:08 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152844 Huh, so if he didn't use quotation marks, he didn't mean it as a quote, even though he used exactly the same words? That's a stretch, but, hey, you're defending the guy. If he meant some other reference, then he should have used different words. He's a professional writer. He certainly didn't use those words by accident. Fact is, he screwed up. And I'm not the only one who believes the Depression got up and running in the 20s. <a href="http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/depression/" rel="nofollow">These guys</a> peg it starting in the 1890s. <a href="http://home.att.net/%7EResurgence/Causes.htm#events" rel="nofollow">This quite liberal fellow</a> pegs the causes starting in the 1920s, for many of the same reasons as I do. <a href="http://econ161.berkeley.edu/TCEH/Slouch_Crash14.html" rel="nofollow">Brad DeLong</a>, hardly a conservative, also pegs the initial slide to the mid 1920's. Huh, so if he didn't use quotation marks, he didn't mean it as a quote, even though he used exactly the same words? That's a stretch, but, hey, you're defending the guy. If he meant some other reference, then he should have used different words. He's a professional writer. He certainly didn't use those words by accident. Fact is, he screwed up.

And I'm not the only one who believes the Depression got up and running in the 20s.

These guys peg it starting in the 1890s. This quite liberal fellow pegs the causes starting in the 1920s, for many of the same reasons as I do. Brad DeLong, hardly a conservative, also pegs the initial slide to the mid 1920's.

]]> By: mahahttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152842 maha Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:36:14 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152842 Note that Robinson didn't put quotation marks about the "fear" quote. I suspect he remembers full well that FDR actually spoke those words for the first time in 1933. But FDR spoke about fear and freedom from fear in many other speeches as well, such as the "four freedoms" speech from 1941. It was a theme he returned to many times, not just in 1933. And anyone who thinks the Great Depression had been going on for more than a decade in 1933 shouldn't be throwing stones. Note that Robinson didn't put quotation marks about the "fear" quote. I suspect he remembers full well that FDR actually spoke those words for the first time in 1933. But FDR spoke about fear and freedom from fear in many other speeches as well, such as the "four freedoms" speech from 1941. It was a theme he returned to many times, not just in 1933.

And anyone who thinks the Great Depression had been going on for more than a decade in 1933 shouldn't be throwing stones.

]]> By: Jimmiehttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152841 Jimmie Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:34:12 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152841 Hull, I"m not sure you read my post very well. I did not say "they do it, too!". What I said was "they do it, period". I do not buy into the proposition that the President is fear-mongering when it comes to warning us about the threat that terrorists pose to us. Again, read FDR's speech and tell me where I've misjudged the meaning of his statement. Plainly, he criticized those who would manufacture the sort of fear that causes people to freeze, lose heart, and do nothing. Not all "fear" is the same and a simplstic analogy to childhood thievery isn't even close to the mark. I ask you, of the Left and the President, who is offering fear that paralyzes and who is offering warnings that urge action and resolve? As for your questions, I can certainly answer them right now off the top of my head: No and No. Your insistence that a Congress of a Court may intervene in the war-prosecuting powers of a sitting President who has already been given the authority to prosecute that war by Congress gives away your agenda. Hull, I"m not sure you read my post very well. I did not say "they do it, too!".

What I said was "they do it, period".

I do not buy into the proposition that the President is fear-mongering when it comes to warning us about the threat that terrorists pose to us. Again, read FDR's speech and tell me where I've misjudged the meaning of his statement. Plainly, he criticized those who would manufacture the sort of fear that causes people to freeze, lose heart, and do nothing. Not all "fear" is the same and a simplstic analogy to childhood thievery isn't even close to the mark.

I ask you, of the Left and the President, who is offering fear that paralyzes and who is offering warnings that urge action and resolve?

As for your questions, I can certainly answer them right now off the top of my head: No and No. Your insistence that a Congress of a Court may intervene in the war-prosecuting powers of a sitting President who has already been given the authority to prosecute that war by Congress gives away your agenda.

]]> By: Hullhttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152840 Hull Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:28:08 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152840 I fail to see how attacking Robinson on a misplaced date or pointing the finger at liberals to say, "see it's really them!" addresses the use of fear as a political tactic. If Eugene Robinson is wrong about when FDR said "we have nothing to fear . . ." pointing it out does not address teh Administration using fear in politics to pursue an agenda. Nor does accusing Democrats of using fear of a new American Empire address the issue of using fear in politics. Similarly, if you have two kids and one kid stole something, then accuses the other kid of doing the same thing; the accusation of stealing does not absolve either kid and still leaves the issue of stealing to be dealt with. The issues are: Does this adminsitration use fear to promote it's aganda? Does this administration violate the law and/or the spirit of the law by engaging in preemptive war without cause, eavesdropping, torture, and holding prisoners without due process (e.g. black sites). I don't have the answers to those questions. I don't think anybody knows these answers right off the top of their head, so they should be explored by Congress and perhaps by a Court. Name calling and saying "they do it too!" does not help this country get back on track. We need to actually address a bunch of problems in this country. So, let's address the issues instead of using red herrings and logical fallacies to shift attention from what is happening. I fail to see how attacking Robinson on a misplaced date or pointing the finger at liberals to say, "see it's really them!" addresses the use of fear as a political tactic.

If Eugene Robinson is wrong about when FDR said "we have nothing to fear . . ." pointing it out does not address teh Administration using fear in politics to pursue an agenda.

Nor does accusing Democrats of using fear of a new American Empire address the issue of using fear in politics.

Similarly, if you have two kids and one kid stole something, then accuses the other kid of doing the same thing; the accusation of stealing does not absolve either kid and still leaves the issue of stealing to be dealt with.

The issues are: Does this adminsitration use fear to promote it's aganda?

Does this administration violate the law and/or the spirit of the law by engaging in preemptive war without cause, eavesdropping, torture, and holding prisoners without due process (e.g. black sites).

I don't have the answers to those questions. I don't think anybody knows these answers right off the top of their head, so they should be explored by Congress and perhaps by a Court.

Name calling and saying "they do it too!" does not help this country get back on track. We need to actually address a bunch of problems in this country. So, let's address the issues instead of using red herrings and logical fallacies to shift attention from what is happening.

]]> By: Jimmiehttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152839 Jimmie Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:18:43 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152839 I understand the point, John. The reason I used 1920 (or so) was to help accent FDR's point. The Depression didn't simply jump up out of nowhere in 1929 or 1930. It has been building over more than a decade and, by the time it was at its worst, people were simply bone-weary and easily frightened into passivity. I understand the point, John.

The reason I used 1920 (or so) was to help accent FDR's point. The Depression didn't simply jump up out of nowhere in 1929 or 1930. It has been building over more than a decade and, by the time it was at its worst, people were simply bone-weary and easily frightened into passivity.

]]> By: John Cunninghamhttp://www.sundriesshack.com/2006/01/27/lessons-of-fear-and-some-fact-checking-to-boot/comment-page-1/#comment-152835 John Cunningham Fri, 27 Jan 2006 02:33:20 +0000 http://sundriesshack.com/?p=2228#comment-152835 Not to be overly nitpicky, but since you are properly calling Robinson to task for blatant historical error, you need a bit of correction on something you wrote--in spring of 1933, the Depression had been on for about 4 years or so. The big stock market crash was in October, 1929, and the big drop in GNP started in early 1930. It is true that agriculture was in shaky status from the early 1920s on, but most historians date the Depression as starting in fall 1929. Not to be overly nitpicky, but since you are properly calling Robinson to task for blatant historical error, you need a bit of correction on something you wrote–in spring of 1933, the Depression had been on for about 4 years or so. The big stock market crash was in October, 1929, and the big drop in GNP started in early 1930. It is true that agriculture was in shaky status from the early 1920s on, but most historians date the Depression as starting in fall 1929.

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